April 30, 2007
Gemma's Journal #10
A note from Jenn: This entry was supposed to be up a few days ago, but while in Vegas I had some technical difficulties. I'm back in Tokyo again, quite possibly for good. Stay tuned for more on-time updates!
Ok, so I'm hoping that everyone got what happened in the last post. I'm still not entirely sure of the whole scoring system myself so any encouragement is much appreciated! I'm hoping that the people I teach Mahjong to in Taiwan have been reading these too. Everytime I tell them how much a hand is worth they're completely incredulous and think I'm just making numbers up on the spot. Now I can prove to them that there is some logic in the seemingly random numbers I come up with!
So, you have your base points now hopefully! Where are we going to go from there?
You need your hand points! Garthe has been going through the hands and what each is worth, so hopefully you have a good idea how many hand points each hand is worth already. We then have to look at a chart (well beginners have to look at a chart and those of us who's brains are too tired from having to work out the base points already). The easiest thing that I have found is just learning the chart, although Jenn has kindly explained the whole thing to me. I did find it a lot easier to just pull the numbers from my memory than try and work the whole thing out mathematically each time. Also if you're not a genius then it's pretty difficult to work it out quick enough in a real game.
All the tables were automatic and quite frightening to the uninitiated. It took me a little while to get used to all the buttons and what they did; although it does speed up the process so much. I really appreciated not having to build the wall manually and not having to count the bones (They're counted automatically for you by magnets). So now I've decided that my new aim is to have one in my house (I have to get a house big enough for one first!).
I'm not going to swamp you with the entire chart now. I'm just going to give you the ones that are going to be the most useful (also seemingly the most random- if you can memorise these two charts the rest is a breeze!). Then, next week I'll give you the rest.
Non-Dealer
Top number is when won off a discard (one person pays). Brackets are for a self-drawn win- first number is what the non-dealers pay out and the second number is that which the dealer pays out (the bigger one!)| Hand Points -> Base Points | 1 | 2 | 3 |
|---|---|---|---|
| 30 | 1000 (300/500) | 2000 (500/1000) | 3900 (1000/2000) |
| 40 | 1300 (400/700) | 2600 (700/1300) | 5200 (1300/2600) |
| 50 | 1600 (400/800) | 3200 (800/1600) | 6400 (1600/3200) |
Dealer
Top number is when won off a discard (one person pays). Bottom number is what each player pays the dealer for a self-drawn win.| Hand Points -> Base Points | 1 | 2 | 3 |
|---|---|---|---|
| 30 | 1500 (500) | 2900 (1000) | 5800 (2000) |
| 40 | 2000 (700) | 3900 (1300) | 7700 (2600) |
| 50 | 2400 (800) | 4800 (1600) | 9600 (3200) |
At 4 hand points everything gets a lot simpler and base points cease to matter!
Non-dealer
4-5: 8000 (2000/4000)
6-7: 12000 (3000/6000)
8-10: 16000 (4000/8000)
11-: 24000 (6000/12000)
Full points (Limit Hand): 32000 (8000/16000)
Dealer
4-5: 12000 (4000)
6-7: 18000 (6000)
8-10: 24000 (8000)
11-: 36000 (12000)
Full points (Limit Hand): 48000 (16000)
So after three hand points things get a lot easier! So I would just remember that for the time being and those are the most common points to score.
However, one last annoying thing is that there is a different chart for All-pairs and Peace hand.
Non-Dealer
| Hand Points -> Base Points | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Peace | 1000 | 2000 (400/700) | 3900 (700/1300) | 7700 (1300/2600) |
| All-Pairs | 1600 (400/800) | 3200 (800/1600) | 6400 (1600/3200) |
Dealer
| Hand Points -> Base Points | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Peace | 1500 | 2900 (700) | 5800 (1300) | 11600 (3900) |
| All-Pairs | 2400 (800) | 4800 (1600) | 9600 (3200) |
After the 4 hand points it just starts to follow the 5 hand point values which makes things a lot better!
Put off now? I think I am! This is possibly not the most ideal way of explaining or teaching it so I think I might try it out on the people here and see if we can come up with a better way of explaining the whole thing. Next column I'll try and work through some examples and also post up the remaining charts for base points over 50. You'll have all the materials you need for scoring then and hopefully with a few examples the entire ordeal will be a lot clearer!
I took all the numbers for the charts from a book so if there are any mistakes I blame them, or my transcribing! Either way please post up so I can rectify the problem.
Finally, I shall leave you with a question. Why does Peace hand and All-pairs not follow the scoring system that uses the base points? I'll demand an answer from one of our pros if no one else knows!
Good luck going through these charts! And remember the best way to learn is practice! Set yourself questions, or even better make up a question and post it up here and have us all look at it and argue over it. You lot are probably helping me more than the other way round anyway!
Thank you for reading this far! Until next week!
And as usual every week I love to get emails and now that I'm home I have lots of time! So email me!
8 comments:
No answers to Gem's query yet? Well, I guess I'll take a stab in my muddled beer induced sort of way.
First, Peace (Pinfu). It is indeed strange and doesn't follow the normal rules for computing base points. Somebody sowewhere just decreed that Peace would always be 20 base points. The thing is, it only really makes a difference in the final scoring computation when the hand also includes "Concealed Self Draw" (Menzen Tsumo). This is the only situation in which one can ever have a total of 20 base points. So Gem's table could also include a row at the top for that situation. Not sure how to make a table here so I'll just write them out:
2 hand points - 400/700
Peace, Concealed Self Draw
3 hand points - 700/1300
Ex: Peace, Concealed Self
Draw, Reach
4 hand points - 1300/2600
Ex: Peace, Concealed Self
Draw, Reach, Simples
Those would be the points received for a non dealer, the small number for the other non-dealers and the larger for the dealer. If the dealer won in this situation he would receive the larger number from all the non-dealers. So it's one more line for you to remember in your table though you may notice that it's the same as the 40 base point line (twice 20), just one hand point off! Which if you went through the whole rigormorale of figuring out score based on the formula, would make total sense!!!
Then there's All Pairs. This is the other hand in which the base points have been determined by decree. They're always 25 and the table line there would be like this:
2 hand points - 1600 or 2400
3 hand points - 3200 or 4800
4 hand points - 6400 or 9600
The first number is if the winner is Non-dealer, the second is if it's the dealer. If Concealed Self Draw is in the hand, then half the points will be paid by the dealer and 1/4 by each nondealer. Or if the dealer won with Concealed Self Draw, the number would be split 3 ways between the non-dealers. Again if you look at the row for 50 base points (twice 25) the numbers looks suspiciously familiar, no? Same but one hand point off, which makes prefect sense, if you're into formulas and all that crap.
It IS all really complicated and it seems to be the number one complaint for Japanese who know how to play too. Scorekeeping is just too hard to understand. Someday a new decree simplifying things a bit might really be nice, eh.
I hate these tables. They are just so full of numbers and stuff. Hardly ever used them. I like calculating the score myself. It's much better not to use the tables at all. It will be hard to do the math in the begining but once you get used to it all the scoring will make sence. I only used the table once, and I tell you that when I tried to calculate without table later that day, I could barely round up. Heh, from that day I'm scared of looking at the table. It sucks your brains out!!!
OK bye.
The only thing I would suggest is that these tables match up with the ones Jenn posted on the website. Jenn's Hand Points include the 2 that you automatically win when you go out, but most tables assume this already (this I've seen), and so Gemma's 1 HP is Jenn's 3 HP which might be confusing for newcomers.
For river-wins, the Peace Hand is ALWAYS worth 30 base points, so you can use the normal chart. However, for a self-drawn win, it is only worth 20 base points, so you need to use the special chart that Gem provided here. For the All-Pairs Hand, I usually find it easier to think of it as a 1-Hand Point, 50-Base Points hand, since it is 2 HP and 25 BP. This way you can use the normal chart to find your score for All Pairs too.
dwillems is right. There is a 2 Hand Point bonus for winning any hand. Gem has chosen to omit that here, which can make it easier to understand. On the website in the rules section, we have included it. Since there is a 20-Base Point bonus just for winning a hand as well, the minimum winning hand will be 20 Base Points and 3 Hand Points (On Gemma's chart it is 20 Base Points and 1 Hand Point).
Minimum winning hand is 1 (or 3) han and 30 points, not 20. 20 points means selfdrawn pinfu, and that is minimum 2 han (pinfu and men. tsumo). So there's no 20 point 1 han, minimum is 30 points 1 han = 240 and you get a 1000 point chip. Right?
There is no 1-han, 20-fu (or to keep the terms without confusion, 3HP 20BP) possible when Pinfu is called because it's concealed by default. A concealed hand gives +1HP when self-drawn ("menzen tsumo"). It also gives +10BP if won off a discard (is "menzen ron" the right term though ?).
But then, that begs the question, what about All Simples ("tanyao")?
If you call at least one straight, the four other blocks are 3 straights and a pair, winning off a straight (in "ryanmen"), wouldn't that be worth no base points at all ? I've heard the word "Kuitan" used around, but I never understood what it was. (Wait, I guess I figured it out, and that in tournament games, tanyao can't be exposed... Is this only in tournaments and leagues or are there other places I should be aware of that? -- And what if the above did happen in a "normal game" where Kuitan is allowed ?)
This is a complicated subject, so I will try to keep things simple in my explanation too (>.<)
zeka,
There is always a minimum of 1 Hand Point (Han) required win a hand.
Base Points are always calculated, but there is no minimum requirement.
A Peace Hand will always be 20 Base Points when self-drawn and 30 Base Points with a River-win.
Since the Peace Hand is always concealed, a Self-Draw will include the Concealed Self-Draw 1 HP and the Peach 1 HP, so it will always be at least 20 BP and 2 HP.
With a River-win, if your only HP is Peace, you will have 30 BP and 1 HP, so the discarder of your winning tile will pay you 1,000 points total.
kintaro shiraga,
Thanks for writing!
I think I stepped on your point above (>.<) sorry about that.
You're right, the ALL SIMPLES (or Inside Hand, 2-8 or Tanyao) is a special case.
In Japan Professional Mahjong League (JPML), exposed All Simples hand is always allowed. In most places right now, it is always allowed. There is a house rule that requires the inside hand to be concealed, but it is not used very often in public play (tournaments in Japan and casino-style games in Japan), but sometimes I see it in private games.
So JPML states that if your exposed All Simples hand is also all runs with an open-ended wait (essentially, the Peace Hand), then you will get 30 Base Points for a River Win AND a Self-Draw. If you have sets of 3 or 4 of a kind in your open All Simples hand (kuitan), then you may take as many Base Points as are in your hand.
If you have a concealed All Simples hand and the Peace Hand as well, you will follow the rules for the Peace Hand.
I hope that wasn't too complicated (>.<)
Please ask more questions!!
Thanks Jenn for the reply!
I don't have much to add to the comment right now but it's good to know that someone thought about that case already, as I may encounter such a case in a local game soon, and being the person of reference, I'm glad I know this now.
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