Sunday, August 12, 2007

Jenn's Corner #15: OEMC

August 12, 2007




Jenn's Corner #15: OEMC



I took my first trip to Europe, using the excuse that my sister was studying/interning in Italy and stopping in Copenhagen for the 2nd OEMC. This was the first tournament I ever attended that used the Chinese Official rules and also the first tournament I attended that offered no cash prizes for the winners. The organizers are all volunteering and this was amazing to me, coming from a
background where playing Mahjong for money is not only accepted, but considered to be the norm.






I knew this would be the first time that I would meet many people that I had been in contact with via e-mail for the past year (like Martin Rep and Tina Christensen) and some that I had heard of but never gathered the courage to contact (Tom Sloper) and some that I had met before for brief periods (Benjamin Boas). This was my first trip to a place I had never been where I knew no one. It took me forever to figure out how to get to my hotel and even longer to get over the fact that the internet wouldn't work and the place itself was much different (meaning worse) than the picture on the internet.




Somehow I found my way to the venue for registration. I waited outside and was greeted by the Taiwanese team! They had seen me on the news in Taiwan after my participation in the WSOM (Macau) and started speaking to me in Chinese (even though my interview had been in English). I took this opportunity to practice speaking a bit of Mandarin and make some very good friends from the place I used to live.




Although I wouldn’t be competing, I did have a package waiting for me as a companion. Walking in, I saw the legendary Tom Sloper. He was busy passing out his newly published book to those deserving but he managed to find time to greet me with, “So you’re the famous Jenn!” This coming from the famous Tom! I was surprised and very pleased that he knew who I was and we became fast friends. I also met the rest of Team USA and enjoyed my first Danish meal with some new friends from Austria and France. All I can say is why didn’t you tell me there was horseradish in it??




The famous Tom and the famous Jenn




One thing that surprised me in the opening comments was the emphasis that mahjong should not at all be associated with gambling. This is an opinion that I can never agree with. While I do not believe that all mahjong games must include gambling, I have a great appreciation for the fact that it is easy to incorporate a monetary incentive for winners. I have never considered gambling to be a bad thing and think of it as an important part of my life. To be quite honest, I get a little bit disappointed when people tell me that gambling is bad and should not be associated with the game I love since they are both such huge parts of my life, together and separately. I wonder if it would be something like telling a sommelier that alcohol is bad and not be allowed with meals? I guess I’d have to ask a sommelier... Can someone introduce me?




There were a few interesting occurrences, for instance, the player from Team Osaka that was caught with extra tiles in his lap. I have chosen not to comment extensively on this subject because it was not something I witnessed. I would, however, like to commend Mr. Oda, who continued playing on the 3rd day without a team for support and took 2nd place in the competition. Also, I was granted the honor to ring the gong on the final day. Very excited, I waited by the stage for my cue and when it was finally time, I rang it! But, oh no! I was too quiet! So this time, the gong was rung twice to commence the session. Everyone had a good laugh at my expense (including myself) and it made a great memory to tell all of you about.




The witch at the bonfire




Those feelings aside, I enjoyed the entire event. I met amazing people, got to see my first witch burned in the bonfire, learned how many friends I had not only with mahjong as a common interest, but poker as well. I do feel like this trip accomplished a lot and gave me a good understanding of what Mahjong is like outside of Japan and the US. I hope that I can keep in touch with everyone that I’ve met there and that some of you are reading this as well. I was incredibly impressed with the devotion and passion demonstrated by both the organizers and the participants.

22 comments:

Benjamin said...

Great entry!

Your perspectives on OEMC 2007 are really interesting. I hope they reach the European participants and organizers, particularly since many of them don't know very much about Japan's (very developed) Mahjong culture.

I think your points on gambling & Mahjong in particular are pretty on-target. While I don't like money tournaments personally, I find it surprising that nearly everyone under the WMO umbrella (Chinese official rules people) is so heavily opposed to it.

As you say, money makes for a pretty good incentive. It's the same with most major tournaments on just about any game, including sports tournaments. I wonder if many people know that (non-scholastic) chess tournaments in the US generally flop unless there's a cash prize. I'd assume it's the same anywhere in the world (Andy? Walter? EP?) I don't think anyone would call chess gambling yet most organizers have accepted money as neccessary. (Even if you want to call it a neccessary evil, it's still neccessary).

It's nice to see some support for Oda-san. I got to know him in the days before the tournament and I think he's a very nice guy. He's a pro too but he's not JPML, right?

Keep up the good work!

Anonymous said...

yes I totally agree with you Ben, giving to people the dream to win a bunch of dollars increases dramatically the population of the event! I think it's necessary fpr the upcoming events in order to spread the game even more. Why poker became so popular? You can basically win money even in the cheapest tournament around.

Archon_Wing said...

Although I generally play mahjong for fun, I don't mind gambling for it. My friends don't like it, so we just stick with non-gambling which is ok. However, I'd never play a tournament that didn't have a decent prize though.

There is a lot of ignorance surrounding gambling. People believe that gamblers are all compulsive and will gamble away their life savings, but this is simply not true. Regardless, legislators and governments love to pick on people who just gamble for fun. In this past year, there has been a substantial effort to ban online gambling. In fact many people would tell you it's illegal to gamble online (poker) on the U.S., but this is not true, it's simply much harder. But the propogandist would tell you otherwise.

And of course when we talk about Chinese Official, we see an intresting situation. The Chinese government had tried to crack down on mahjong, it was actually illegal for a while but that didn't really deter people. So to deal with this they'd come up with their own version as some kind of compormise. CO would be branded as "healthy", non gambling, mahjong (So other types are unhealthy?) [Source:Wiki] It's propoganda at its finest, and we should not spread the agenda of the Chinese government, me thinks

Rant aside, we cannot deny that mahjong has an inherent gamble to it. It's about luck, it's about taking risks. You cannot deny its origins. And honestly, when the heck does "gambling" turn into "logical risk taking" or investing? In the end we're just calling a spade a spade right? You can play it for fun, you can play it for money.

Tina said...

Some of you find it surprising that EMA has so far held it's tournaments without money prizes, and it was mentioned that in that way it is not possible to spread mahjong. The enourmous growth in European mahjong the last few years tells another story.

You have to realize how young organized mahjong is in Europe, and how no potential sponsors have heard of the game. The situation is so different from that in Japan, that we cannot just take on the Japanese way of organizing tournaments.

In every sport, also mind sports, you have two kinds of players: the competitive players (top athletes) and those who see it as a popular sport and play more just for fun and friendship. If a sport is extremely popular, you'll have different clubs so that each player can choose a club that suits his preferences. But if the sport is known and played by a small community, you accomodate both types of players in the same club, and have both types of players in your tournaments. The nourishment of the social players spreads the sport to a larger audience. In time, from the social players you can recruit top players.

In Europe, the majority of people have never heard of mahjong. A lot of people know the name from the solitaire game, but only few people know the four-player game. This means that it is very hard to attract potential sponsors.

So, at least for OEMC 2007, the case was that any valuable prizes, any extra fancyness at all, would be payed through the players registration fees. We know that the EUR 170 registration fee was considered quite steep by several players, and had we made it EUR 200 (as we wished in order to make the event a little more fancy), we would start to loose the support of the players, so that idea was abandoned.

The situation is likely to change in the coming years. Europe has more and more players who are skilled enough to compete in international tournaments. I believe we will see sponsored money prizes at the OEMC 2009 in Austria.

Now regarding the opening words of healthy, non-gambling mahjong. Yes, you can call that propaganda, or politics. Mahjong Denmark (the association of Danish mahjong players) has been accepted in the Danish Mind Sports Association, and through them we get money support from the government (the minister of culture was present when the speech was made). The Danish poker association have not been able to get accepted as a mind sport (though I personally think it would be reasonable, but that doesn't matter).

Also, we like to assure our Chinese friends that we play healthy mahjong, because if not, then the Chinese organization would not be allowed to associate with us. We need China in the international world of mahjong, so we show consideration.

That was the view of Tina the organizer. My personal view is, that if you have enough money to have valuable prizes at at tournament that's okay, but I don't want to pay an increased registration fee in order to compete for money. Such prizes should be sponsored. And when it comes to gambling, as in playing for money in single games, I don't like the idea of money between friends. I wouldn't enjoy winning money off my friends; rather it would make me feel awkward. The argument for money games is often that it increases the excitement. In DK our rating lists are very successful in adding that element.

Tina said...

I should add that I don't mind others playing mahjong for money. So, Jenn, rest assured that I do not frown upon your fondness of money games; it's just that the situations are so very different in Europe and Japan. Next time I get the chance to visit Japan I would love to experience playing in a parlour.

EP said...

It's a nice entry, Jenn! I really enjoy reading such articles and views on mahjong tournaments and culture.

Well, I can't really comment like I'm an expert or what, but I know that in Singapore, for many mind sports (chess, xiangqi, weiqi/go, contract bridge, Scrabble, board games such as Cashflow etc.), there are oftentimes some small cash prizes which come from the entry fees for the tournaments. Sponsorship is rather rare though.

But players usually do not mind (especially since the prizes are so pithy), and most play for the honour of winning and being better than the others.

I know rather well, as I used to play contract bridge tournaments (and Singapore being so small, we'll get to see basically the whole contract bridge community), and everyone is basically trying to play their best, without a real regard for the amount of money at stake.

More fundamentally, would having cash prizes be considered a form of gambling? The odds seem rather poor. A pool of 100 over competitors slugging it out for 3 prizes of low value? It takes real effort to earn even a little bit of money, so I am personally not too inclinced to think of it as gambling (compared to say, blackjack or baccarat at the casino).

If we extend the argument to sports (if that's a good comparison), like tennis or golf, where there's a lot of prize, do professional sportsmen count as gamblers? Just because there is some money involved for the winners does not make such sports gambling, IMHO.

Rather, I would think the WMO should be more generally opposed to mahjong in everyday social gaming being used for gambling, rather than cash prizes at tournaments.

Archon_Wing said...

Tina:
I have no qualm with just using the entrance fees for the prize, (and maintenance costs), in fact that's probaly how it should be. It might not be a big prize, but of course you must risk more to win more.

Fortunately, with the internet, we have many possibilities to spread mahjong as we are doing right now.

Also, I may use strong words such as propoganda, but I would never blame the organizers of the event, arguably they are the victims of the situation, such as the fact that the Chinese organization can't associate with you guys if you didn't do what they wanted to. This added by the fact that many people do not know about mahjong, and many of those that do think that everyone plays the same way. It is simply a tough spot

It might just be a good idea to talk about mahjong as an international game which is played many different ways and by having international events we are basically having cultures from across the world meet together in celebration. Sounds rather healthy to me.

ryan_c_m said...

To bet or not to bet.

I learned mahjong as an exchange student at Osaka University in '95. From morning to night, there were students playing mahjong at rickety tables in most of the extra pockets of space on the campus. One glance at one of these tables and you could sense the energy. The four players were excited to be socializing, but it was more than that.

All of these tables were playing for money. I would have been hard-pressed to find a practice table. At most, I might find a table that was playing a practice hand or two (NOT a game, a hand!) to give a raw beginner a fighting chance (Japanese very much take a sink or swim style of teaching; this is socially accepted in the society).

The stakes are almost insignificant. I got my mahjong education playing for an entire year at one of these tables. It was for 10 yen/1000 points, which means I was paying an average of 150 Yen (1 Euro) per day for the "lessons." The most you could lost in one game was 300 yen.

The monetary incentive seems to really attract players. It gives the game a tangible purpose.

Japan's mahjong culture is highly developed. In my opinion, Japan is home to the world's best players. Ara Masayoshi, Ide Yosuke, Sakurai Shoichi all possess world-class talent. There are at least several thousand highly skilled players, including pros and amateurs.

I have never met a highly skilled player who did not develop his or her game in serious cash games. Also, my observation has been that most players were originally attracted to the game because of the excitement of the cash.

Ironically, often the players who are willing to play no-cash games are quite advanced. A player who starts out as a cash game player and becomes very serious about the game eventually sees the extent of the strategic depth, and the game becomes intrinsically fascinating. There are so many choices to make in the game, and "playing against oneself" (improving one's game for the sake of improving) can be very engaging. I am such a player; I will play for no-cash if it's to teach a beginner or to practice against skilled players.

I find it very ironic that many of the major players in the domestic industry here who are very vocal about making mahjong a clean and "healthy" mind sport were originally big cash players. In most cases, it is blatantly in their own self-interest. For example, there is a group that has organized mahjong teaching for senior citizens. It seems like a worthy objective, and I am not opposed to them. But it also happens to be a big business. It is very organized and has developed into a fairly large company. Part of their promotional platform has been to promote mahjong as a healthy form of socialization. Thus, they have strongly downplayed the images of it being a gambling game, a drinking game, and a game that is often played all night. All of this is to attract senior citizen players, and most importantly, female senior citizens who are more prone to feel that the above factors are unsavory. Incidentally, they are also quick to point out that mahjong can be helpful in preventing dementia.

Humans try harder when motivated.

I don't mind playing for no-prize tournaments, but it does affect my motivation. I play in serious cash gambling games. People at the tables I play at are serious players. We have some great poker players, some of whom have played the best poker players in Vegas, and we have a championship backgammon player. When I tell them I played in the OEMC in Nijmegen, the first thing they ask is, "How much does first place take?" I answer sheepishly, "Well, there's no prize pool, it's kind of for hobbyists and people who really like the game."

"Huh. Gotcha. Ryan, you gonna call or raise or what?"

I wish to avoid a discussion about the morality of gambling. I only wish to make an argument that mahjong in Japan would not be what it is today if it were not for the excitement of the cash aspect of it. Can this model be projected upon the world and Europe? Does mahjong need to be a gambling game to flourish?

Good question.

Anonymous said...

It's very natural to think things can only be the way you know them to be if you have never had a chance to witness other models. It's also very easy to confound the cause with the effect.

In a country where Mahjong is part of popular culture and part of its national identity, it's only normal the game has many levels of excellence and has its own economy attached to it, with a star system and a professional circuit at the top levels. If you have the ambition the climb above average, it makes sense to pay for lessons since you are paying not only for Mahjong education but to have a shot at fame and fortune, a shot at a better life and social recognition. So, in Japan, talented players compete against each other, lessons are viewed as investments and the size of wagers is a mesure of the level a player has reached. Being a competitive Mahjong player as a social value in Japan, therefore a monetary value is attached to it.

Mahjong is complete different beast in Europe. It is pratically unknown. There are no higher levels to aspire to. Therefore, this is no Mahjong economy. There is no star system. No professional circuit. No reason to pay for lessons other than personal satisfaction. There are no outside rewards.


> I wish to avoid a discussion about the morality of gambling.

This is not a good idea. Opponents will accuse you of sidestepping this issue only because you dislike the conclusions of a thorought examination. You must be a pathological gambler that refuses to admit he has a problem and you simply cannot find any justification for gambling since there are none. Your silence is the proof gambling a sin and that you are a sinner. Don't let them win so easily. Don't flee.

Besides, you cannot praise the virtues of gambling and not answer legitimate concerns one might have. Gambing is not all bad, a frightening deadly sin, nor all good, the utimate motivator that will propel Mahjong in the big leagues of successful sports and games. It's more complex than that.

For instance, one problem with gambling is that the same bet amount doesn't have the same implication whether you are rich or poor. For one player 30 Euro is half of his weekly budget for food, for another it's not even the full price of one of many meals he will eat at a restaurant this week. It wouldn't matter much if the playing offer was so great (like in poker) players could always choose to play on a small table or a big stakes table. But, there are so few opportonuties of playing competitive Mahjong in Western countries, it would be very bad thing for the game to become a "gambling" game. Until Mahjong become so common you can play 24 per day, 7 days a week, in everywhere city, for any amount you are willing to risk without putting yourself in jeopardy, it's best the game remains a "game for fun".

Gambling becomes unhealthy when it stops to be a choice. If it becomes compulsory to risk considerable amount of money to compete in tournaments, Mahjong stops to be an healty entertainment.

Also, I'm not sure everybody took the time to evaluate how big a "big prize" needs to be to attract new players to the game.

Yes, to dangle large amounts of money in front the eyes of the general public is very effective marketing tool. Many sports and games have proved it. But, for a prize to attract people that know next to nothing about a game or a sport, to make them dream, it needs to be really subtancial. It needs to be at least in the neigbourhood of several months of salary. Secondary prizes must also be interesting and quite numerous so at least the top 20% of players recuperate their registration fees with a small profit. At this time, it is unrealistic to operate that way since there are not enough competitors on the European circuit. You need a lot of small loosers to have a few big winners. Right now, only a few "loosers" are available. You need a lot more before even thinking of attracting large crowds to Mahjong events.

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