January 18, 2007
Jenn's Corner #5
Mahjong of Yesterday, Mahjong of Today, Mahjong of Tomorrow?
So Mahjong has come a long way from what was rumored to be an illegal card game waaaaaay back in the mountains of China. It has changed with each place it has gone to throughout the world, but the basics are still the same for everyone. No matter how you say it, the way you get tiles is by drawing (tsumo), bumping (pon, pung) and chowing (chi) and you have to throw away one tile for each one you get.
So what is Reach Mahjong like now? What has changed about it? Well, in Japan there is another type of Mahjong called Boo Mahjong. It is not very common to find now, but it used to be the mainstream, especially in Western Japan.
In Boo Mahjong, everyone starts with the same amount of points. I usually hear of starting with 2000. There are many local variations, but some of the common ones are like this. The game stops when someone doubles their starting points or loses all of their points. In order to continue as the dealer, the dealer has to win. In the event of a draw, no points are exchanged, even for ready hands. If you missed your win? Forgetting winning that hand. You can't win on any tile, even a draw, if you have already discarded one of your winning tiles. Ok, so when can you win? Well, if you win on a hand that pushes someone under zero, you better make sure you have more than 2000, otherwise you get a foul! If you bring someone else under 2000 even though you still end up with less than 2000, foul again! So it's ok to push and scratch past people, but you can pull them down into your drowning whirlpool.
The scoring is obviously counted differently than in Reach Mahjong and the final score too. Boo Mahjong got its name because the points are counted using Base Points (fu = Boo). One person with more than 2000 points is A-Top, two people floating is B-Top and three people with more than they started? Possibly another foul. When money is exchanged, the final score doesn't matter and each person receives money according to their place in line. One other interesting thing is that at least in some places, the Drag Indicator (dora hyouji) was the very last of the King's tiles. If you Quaded, you got that very tile and the Drag would actually change to the next of the King's Tiles! Now we use the 4th one which allows for only 4 Quads on the table.
Besides rules changing, manners have changed as well. With more and more Casino-style Mahjong parlors, a new culture of manners and conduct has emerged.
In current Mahjong Parlors the following will get you a warning or out of the game:
- Talking about your hand during play (true or bluff)
- Drawing your next tile before the player before you has discarded
- Throwing tiles away too hard
- Throwing bones when paying someone
- Humming or Singing
- Talking on the phone for too long during play
There are more, but these are the big ones. In my opinion, to make Mahjong more popular in the world, things like bluffing and humming should be allowed. Strong players won't be phased by the bluffing and humming and the whole experience will be more human. I guess it is a question of wanting to go more in the way of poker or more in the way of shogi and chess. I think that Mahjong is 4 people, not 1 on 1 and that makes it more like poker. The fact that there is a deal and that there is luck involved with the deal and the draw also makes me want to lean toward poker.
In the future, just like the past, many things in Mahjong will change as it evolves from a simple form of home entertainment to a world-wide popular game. Let's start by simpling up the scoring system!
6 comments:
Hi Jenn,
Another interesting post! You really shine light on every corner of the Japanese Mahjong.
- "In my opinion, to make Mahjong more popular in the world, things like bluffing and humming should be allowed."
I think this is mainly a matter of culture. For instance, European casinos forbid poker players to bluff or talk to each other. In North America, bluff and sporadic chatter is not only allowed but part of game and, as you say, contributes to make it more human.
At our club, bluffing is allowed, since, no one trust what a player says about his hand anyway. Small chatter and jokes are even encouraged. Mahjong should be foremost a social competitive event, where chess gatherings too often give me the same impression as funerals; everybody look sad and serious. Next time you see chess players, notice their faces light up only when it's all finished.
But I can understand that in the context of a Japanese Mahjong parlour, in a crowded room, when money is involved or strangers are playing together for the first time, it is more appropriate to remain discrete.
In my opinion, phone conversations, iPods and humming are too annoying and impolite to be allowed, even for a few seconds. Either you are playing with us or you are elsewhere.
- "Let's start by simpling up the scoring system!"
The Japanese scoring system, although complex, is extremely well balanced. It's one of his main advantage over other variants. But, there is one simplification that could be made for T.V. shows to make the game more understandable for first time viewers: getting rid of base points. Instead, always use 30 and round scores.
1 yaku = 1000 pts
2 yaku = 2000 pts
3 yaku = 4000 pts
4-5 yaku = 8000 pts
5-6 yaku = 12 000 pts
...
At the end of each hand, this scoring chart could light up and the score highlighted.
Jenn, thank you for enlightening me on Buu Mahjong in your post.
I have vaguely heard of the term "Buu Mahjong" and also Japanese Classical rules. The Japanese Classical rules before the 70's didn't have "Reach" or "Dora" I think, and didn't have the "Bazoro" (internal 2 fan) added onto scoring calculation.
Is "Buu Mahjong" and Japanese Classical the same thing?
I like playing mahjong for amusement, and I like it when my opponents make remarks about the discards to keep things interesting. Stuff like "oh, you seem to want Manzu!", "Why do I keep on getting Jihai?!".
Walter, your system will make the game will become Yaku-centric. I think this is a good idea because it makes the person think about what combos to win with in an attempt to cash more, particularly "Men-Tan-Pin", or maybe when there's enough beneficial Doras. For beginners, they will learn the yakus faster as well, and it draws away the cumbersome Fu calculation of individual melds and "Machi" (waiting) styles.
Regarding discussion of hands during play: I used to play quite a bit of poker and while I have utmost respect for the game, what I think makes Mahjong so much more interesting is that Mahjong really allows your melded sequences and discards do the talking. Using conversation to suggest what you might have would be a crutch and in the end the strongest bluffs don't happen in words. I just think that the way bluffing is done in Mahjong currently is the best implentation and I'd rather not see it change personally.
I'm all for friendly and casual games; not talking about your hand can still be a part of that though.
Also, in Reach Mahjong isn't it correct to think of the scoring as follows? I personally don't find it very complicated
1-3 han=(fu rounded up to next 10)*4*(2^(#of han)), max 2000.
So a 38fu 2han hand would be worth 40*4*(2^2)=640 etc..
4-5 han=2000
6-7 han=3000
8-10 han=4000
11-12 han=6000
13+ han=8000
Yeah, I agree that if Reach Mahjong is ever to become more mainstreamly popular, it's probably going to have to do away with the "Fu" or base points system. It is just too complicated for new players and represents a pretty considerable barrier to entry.
But it's going to take someone with a lot more willpower than I. Now that I'm used to it, I can't see how to do it any other way. I think the main reason it is done that way is to encourage use of combinations that are more difficult. Triples are definitely more difficult to make than runs, and triples of 1's 9's and Honor tiles even more so. If there were no reward for using those more difficult tiles, almost every hand would be peace and simples.
OK, that's probably not true. In general, people are just filling up their hands with the first combinations which happen to come along. And giving rewards for what has probably happened accidentally may not be a very great system though it seems to work great for corporate America.
So I have come to like the nitpickiness of the system, which may be more of a sign of my old age than not being able get rim on the basketball court anymore. I like that sometimes I need 2300 points for the win so just Value tiles and lucky dragon (2000 points) won't give me the win but if I have the value tiles all in my hand (8 base points) and I draw my winner(2 base points) to a gut shot run (2 base points) then I win win win with 2600 points. Man, when I put it like that, I DO sound like a nerd.
Anyway, I agree that the scoring system probably needs to be changed. But I have to admit I'm not gonna be strong enough to do it.
And I was agreeing with Jenn and Walter more about the bluffing thing until like 10 seconds ago. Actually, even in poker, some chatter is not allowed. For example, saying what your hole cards are after you've folded the hand can be very valuable information to some players still left in the hand, and may ruin a play (probably a bluff or semi-bluff) by someone else still in the hand. I think one of the reasons it does happen a lot in poker is because the game often becomes a showdown between just 2 players so their discussion/chatter/sh*t talking isn't giving anyone else useful information. Mahjong, however, is always going to be a 4 person game. Disallowing discussion of what's in players' hands is really the only way to ensure that all the players are playing for themselves.
Walter and John,
Thanks again for always commenting!
db_os,
Thanks for reading and comments!!
Ok, so here we go. Lots of comments so it's gonna be a long one from me too.
So after reading what Garthe said, talking about specific tiles in your hand might not be a good idea, but I still believe that a certain amount of chatter is Ok. I agree with Walter when he says let's keep it away from the somber chess environment.
For me, phone conversations are not a big deal. The way I see it, if we are playing for money, someone on the phone is more apt to make a mistake, and in the long run that means more money for me.
Music is a little more difficult. To me, someone with headphones is still better than someone with a cigarette in their hand. I'd like to get rid of THAT aspect.
db_os is right about the hands talking in Mahjong. It is a great thing that bumping a red dragon and a white dragon, even if you don't have a single red one, makes people quiver in fear.
SO the scoring:
Here is how it is now (total score received) The 2 Hand Points for winning a hand "Bazoro" are already included
Non-Dealer:
20 Base Points (fu)
2 - 1500
3 - 2700
4 - 5200
30 Base Points
1 - 1000 (1100 for a self-draw)
2 - 2000
3 - 3900 (4000 for a self-draw)
4 - 7700 (often rounded to 8000, 7900 or rounded to 8000 for a self-draw)
40 Base Points
1 - 1300 (1500 for self-draw)
2 - 2600 (2700 for self-draw)
3 - 5200
4 - 8000
50 Base Points
1 - 1600
2 - 3200
3 - 6400
4 - 8000
60 Base Points
1 - 2000
2 - 3900 (4000 for a self draw)
3 - 7700 (7900 for self draw or rounded to 8000)
4 - 8000
The following applies to all amounts of Base Points:
5 - 8000
6-7 - 12000
8-10 - 16000
11-12 - 24000
So it is based on the doubling feature, but to get to the amount actualy paid, you have to double the base points for each hand point and the final number you get must be multiplied by 2 for what the non-dealers pay and multiplied by 3 for what the dealer pays. Memorizing the chart is easier.
I would say for friendly play and beginners, Walter's system would be best. When I am teaching we always start by getting 1000 points no matter what the hand is. Once you start learning hand points, we move on to using 30-Base Points and later advance to using actual Base Points and using a chart. Maybe for tournaments, having a referee for every few tables would make sense and using the current scoring system would be more competitive.
One thing, though, is that the continuances cause a lot of calcuulation since it is 300 points for each continuance. It is more exciting at the place we play that offers 1500 points for each continuance.
Wow! That was a long one!! Now let's all move to Gemma's 'What would you throw?' I'm going there now!
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